Forum:National Salvation
THIS FORUM IS CLOSED DOWN. PLEASE GO TO THE FIRST AND/OR SECOND CHAMBER. How to save this country? Please discuss & vote. Everyone can see that it can't go on like this. So, let's think forward. How should Lovia be ruled, what is the most democratic way, and so on. Please, discuss our or your ideas, for probably a brighter future of the Lovian state. Proposals (1) Direct democracy As Lovia doesn't count many (active) users, we could create a voting chamber where every inhabitant has the ability to vote on proposals. So no government and no elections, but furthermore less inutile burocracy and no formation of groups (=political parties). Of course, the Wikia guidelines for site administration should be respected. (2) Indirect democracy (Republic) But anyways, we can also do it the formal way by electing a government and a president. But only the elected politicians have the ability to vote. The country would be really in charge by one certain person and the Congress. Others *Kingdom *People's Republic *Oligarchy *Imperium *etc Discussion Please, discuss the ideas here above, or, if you have an idea, please propose it. After some days I would like to set up a vote (everyone who is interested may vote, citizens, inhabitants, everyone). It'll be about these proposals, listed on this page and - if needed (see choise 2) - the election date. Bucureştean 15:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC) :Personally, I'd rather prefer proposal 1. See ro:RoWikicity:Sondaje for example, it is certainly the most fair one. Bucureştean 15:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC) ::I agree. --OuWTB 15:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC) :::First system please, even until the are enough users Pierlot McCrooke 16:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC) ::::To me, the first system is fine, though in my humble opinion in the event more (active) users join, there will be need for some kind of government. BTW, can anyone tell me who is (are) the administrator(s) on this site? Lars Washington 17:54, 10 November 2008 (UTC) ::::First right now, second when the nation stabalizes. Jean :::::Okay, well, we can always create a 'real' republic when we think it would be the right time, don't we? Well, I see that every user is a bit supporting this idea, so I'll arrange the vote tomorrow. BTW Lars@ admin's are: Dimitri, Yuri, Lokixx, SPQRobin and George. Bucureştean 19:41, 10 November 2008 (UTC) ::::::You forgot Arthur. 19:49, 10 November 2008 (UTC) :::::::And American Eagle, than ;) Bucureştean 19:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC) Direct democracy: how? It's clear to me that many people would prefer this system. But, how? I mean, on what page, how should the votes be held, what is relevant for a voting and what not, etc? Please, let me hear your opinion. And, if we estabilish a new governing board, should we abolish the existing constitution and start all over again (by voting for new rules). I'm just giving some examples. Bucureştean 19:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC) Well, the MOTC and all Lovia members should have a forum meeting and abolish rules that no longer pretain to the exsistng government. Also we should throughly think of our disiscion (Elections)! Materiasdraw 20:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC) But we have another problem: We have no active admins! Pierlot McCrooke 06:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC) :Well, I guess y'all ave to wait till an admin comes by and agrees with the aforesaid. Lars Washington 09:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC) ::Oh, the problem is not the administrators. Believe me, there are enough administrators here to manage the site. The problem is: there are not enough users that are really willing to make this site work. Pierlot, Bucu, OWTB, all of them are here for another reason. 09:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC) :::Je denkt dat je me kent, maar (helaas voor jou) is dat niet zo. Ik kan niet tegen dode wiki's waar ik ooit uren tijd aan heb besteed (m.u.v. landj dan :P) --OuWTB 18:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC) The existing government looks a bit like... silent to me. That's why I wanted to ask you to think for a new governing board (probably direct democracy). Well, I think that every Lovian (MOTC or not) should think about the future. But, anyways, maybe a vote would be better. Bucureştean 09:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC) :Please, vote here below. BTW, if this vote will be accepted, there will come a new sery of votes (official name for Lovia, abolishing the constitution or not, etc) Bucureştean 09:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC) Vote! The voting will last exactly 72 hours. Every user may vote (you may not vote with more accounts, only with 1 account). Every majority (51% or higher) is needed to accept the vote. Governing system of Lovia Proposal: Lovia will become a direct democracy. That means that every Lovian (citizen, inhabitant, etc) can vote on proposals, like this one. Elections are not needed as there is no government: the rules are decided by the majority of the people themselves. Hereby, the "State Democracy", including the First & Second Chamber and the government, will be abolished. However, a new voting chamber - for every Lovian - will be opened. Furthermore there will be less burocracy and no directly formation of groups (political parties, for example - as Libertan history tells us it can cause major problems). But don't forget, not only the constitution (rules, chosen by the people --> votes!) but also the official Wikia guidelines for site administration should be respected. 09:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC) PRO * Bucureştean 09:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC) * Pierlot McCrooke 09:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC) * Materiasdraw 13:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC) * Lars Washington 14:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC) * --OuWTB 18:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC) * ... 09:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC) CONTRA * ... ABSTENTION * 12:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC) * ... Remarks Only supporting it if political parties are allowed Pierlot McCrooke 09:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC) :Never said that political parties are not allowed. But this is a more general one, about how we should govern this country. Of course you can start a political party, as it's not forbidden by the law. We could even start a new vote about the future of political parties, if this one is accepted. So, please, take this one more generally, we are not already into those subjects :D. Bucureştean 09:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC) I might agree with this proposal, on condition no former contributions are deleted. Maybe we should consider making a kind of history book with all pages that have been made by former goodwilling editors with regard to the constitution of the Lovian Kingdom and all other pages that could/would be considered void. How about that? @User:Pierlot, if you are angy, please be reasonable and at least tell us what is it you are so furious about. I really do not appreciate you delete pages from former editors. Everybody has done a great job and some respect would be appropriate. Don't you think so? Lars Washington 11:00, 11 November 2008 (UTC) :Geographical, Cultural, Traditional (etc) things have indeed no reason to be deleted, as they belong to this site, and this country: Lovia. Only the current political subjects (like royal family) should be adapted as the country isn't ruled anymore by a king. The Kingdom of Lovia will become part of the Lovian history (actually it is already, but if you have a good look at some articles, the "transformation" from Kingdom to State Democracy wasn't a great succes as there are still many articles that are not yet adapted to the new standard). If you want you could write a book about it, or even create a museum dedicated to the former Kingdom. It actually could become a master piece (such a book: so please, go ahead! :D) Bucureştean 11:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC) ::That is what I call a great idea! I think the best person to do this is HRH Dimitri who stepped down some months ago. I shall contact him and inform him accordingly. Lars Washington 11:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC) :Hm. "Direct democracy" does seem as the best solution, and actually is the way all wikis work, however I’m afraid this site would thus loose some aspects of "nation roleplaying", what I mean Lovia would perhaps no longer be a nation, but merely a wiki about one. :/ --Mithrăndir 19:48, 12 November 2008 (UTC) ::Well. It's only for a short time... We should restabilise our country first and thén we could go further. --OuWTB 20:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC) :::It doesnt need to become like that, I think. We still have to vote about rules for being mayor, or head of the state, for example. I actually think we would progress (for example, no stuff like Article 12 of the current Constitution anymore, you know what I mean). I think you should see it this way: nothing changes, only the rights for the users. Everyone may decide now, instead of an elite. I do not think that other things will change (well, I think you know already that it is not a kingdom anymore). --Bucureştean 20:08, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 09:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC) News *'Direct democracy introduction'. On November 14, 2008, the State democracy was abolished and replaced by a direct democracy. Together with its government, and actually with its whole political system. No MOTC, no elections and no president being chosen by a King - It's all gone. I think it would be unneeded to discuss whether we should keep the Congress or create another forum: there's nothing wrong with the Congress, isn't it? So I propose that we discuss and vote from now on in the Congress. All the discussions and votes for a new constitution will take place in the Congress. THIS FORUM IS CLOSED DOWN. PLEASE GO TO THE FIRST AND/OR SECOND CHAMBER